Paula Sabbagha: Hi there and welcome to the chat TCG podcast. I am Paula Sabbagha, Financial advisor on the TCG and associates team at UBS Financial Services. We are located in Columbia, South Carolina and can be reached at (803) 873-9828. Our guest today is Sheree Woods, senior wealth management banker with UBS Bank USA, an affiliate of UBS. Products discussed by Sheree are, Bank USA Paula Sabbagha: Related and not financial services related. Harvey's do not necessarily reflect that of Bank USA or financial services. Banking products are not broker dealer products, and they are FDIC insured and offered by an affiliate of UBS. Okay. Good afternoon Terry. Welcome to the Podcast Chat TCG. Hi, Paula. So we're excited to have you share about your career and a little bit about what you do for clients here at UBS. Paula Sabbagha: So let's just start with your story. How did you find your way into mortgage and banking? Did you plan this or did it just kind of happen? Sheree Woods: Well, I sort of hit the nail on the head. Whenever I went to college, I studied finance with an emphasis in banking, and I immediately got an internship with what I call old school academia red, white and Blue Lake area before all of the mergers happened. And that was in Savannah, Georgia. And so I just hit the ground running right out of college. Sheree Woods: And so I find myself extremely fortunate. You know, I didn't have to pay on the pavement with my resume. I was in their management training, program, right, right off the bat. And so that was an awesome entry for me. But, as the years progressed, I added new quivers, you know, to my arrow and actually were able to, evolve into credit and underwriting on the commercial side.
Sheree Woods: So business banking and then, eventually over to the security side where I have a large focus on mortgage and other things. Paula Sabbagha: Oh that's awesome. So it kind of just worked out. Was there a defining moment in your career when you realized, this is where I'm supposed to be? Like it all just felt like it came together. Yeah. Sheree Woods: I mean, I think, when I started my career in Savannah, it was definitely commercial banking. You know, you wanted to, attain that highest level, you know, and that city, which would be, you know, the true business banker that was sort of the highest level you could get. And when I attained that, I said, where do I go from here? Sheree Woods: Because I was in my 30s and I said, there's, there's probably more, to this world that I could experience. And then I got the opportunity to come over to the security side of things. And a really good friend and mentor, encouraged me to, to come over on this side and really work with families and high net worth financial advisors to, you know, get really personal with people and help them with their personal assets and lending side. Sheree Woods: And, and really, I think that was probably the pivotal moment. Paula Sabbagha: Oh, that's great. That's kind of like my story. I was a wealth banker kind of in the past and did the lending and mortgages. And now I'm on the advising side. So like you, I think it all it works. Well. It's so nice to help people, and put solutions together and kind of see it from start to finish. Paula Sabbagha: So I definitely agree thinking about mortgage and I know, like over time, the way people think about it has changed. Just with what happens in the economy. But what's something about mortgage banking that people don't understand or they often get wrong? Sheree Woods: Well, I think it's a mystery to most people. I mean, you and I get it because we're in it every day, right? And we've grown up with it. And, you know, we've got years and years of experience. But I think for the layperson who's not in the finance industry, or even not in the mortgage industry, even if they are in finance, it's a mystery.
Sheree Woods: They don't understand. You know, what is an underwriter going to look at? What do I need to show what you know, what what kind of criteria do people, want to, see and and how am I a good credit risk to a bank? So I think it's so mysterious to those outsiders that just don't know what's going to happen. Sheree Woods: So, you know, we can get really consultative and, provide a lot of about base and education to folks. And I think that's where we make the difference is, is really starting from scratch and speaking with someone, you know, as if they're not in the mortgage industry because they're usually not, and making sure they understand why you're asking the questions you're asking just to sort of dissolve some of that mystery around mortgages. Paula Sabbagha: Right? Right. And I think a lot of people, if they haven't, you know, bought a home before or, you know, people in their family have an endowment, it can definitely seem a little bit overwhelming. So I'm glad you're here to help educate people and kind of uncover those mysteries. So you've likely helped a lot of people through some of these emotional times and life changing decisions. Paula Sabbagha: What's a story that you can tell us that stuck with you over the years about how you helped clients, in this mortgage journey? Sheree Woods: Well, I think, you know, we've we've had one year together that I think was one of the best stories, really heartwarming and, and I was certainly proud to be a part of it. But, you know, when you can help the second and third generation. So you may be working with the patriarch matriarch or the grandparent, of the family.
Sheree Woods: And when they bring you a problem to solve for that second or third generation, you really want to help them with it, right? And it's something that's good for everybody. You know, we had an opportunity where we had a grandmother that wanted to get her granddaughter back into South Carolina. She was living far away. She actually wanted her to buy because it happened to be for sale, her childhood home. Sheree Woods: So the grandmother's childhood home. The granddaughter wanted to relocate back to South Carolina. And so the grandmother said, I'll help you in any way I can get into this house. If it gets you home and gets you into my childhood at home. So two twofold there for the grandmother. And so when they come to you or something like that, I think that they feel like, hey, I'm lost. Sheree Woods: Show me the direction. And even though the grandmother had a lot of experience and a lot of financial experience, the granddaughter didn't, you know, surprisingly, you know, the granddaughter had great income. You know, she didn't need help, shouldn't need a co-borrower, right? She even apologized to me one time and said, I'm sorry, I've not been saving up for my down payment like I should have been, but I didn't realize this opportunity was going to come along so quickly. Sheree Woods: So we were able to show her how she could get into the home with a minimum down payment. The grandmother helped out a little bit and absolutely came up with a solution for her great wage earner, so she needed no help, did not need a co-borrower, and wouldn't encourage somebody to have a co-borrower if they don't need one, right? Sheree Woods: And so we were able to put that granddaughter in her grandmother's childhood home as a first time homebuyer and get her home to her family in South Carolina, which I just, you know, I smile every time I think about that story.
Paula Sabbagha: It is a tremendous story. Yeah. And it it's really just life changing for both of them, you know, for the grandmother to know that, you know, she's helped create that legacy that will live on, you know, probably for another generation or two. So it's very heartwarming. Sheree Woods: Well, I think it goes back to that education piece, you know, like if you're just shoveling questions over to your client, you're not explaining to them why you're asking those questions. I think that could just add to the mystery. If you are taking the time to say, I need X document because and explain that behind the the ask, then it makes everything so much more comfortable for everybody. Sheree Woods: Right. And it's very personal. When you're buying a house, it's very personal to the people that are involved. And if you can educate and consult rather than just process a transaction, I think it makes a huge difference for people and your clients. Paula Sabbagha: Right. I couldn't agree more because a lot of people this will be the biggest purchase they make in their lives. Sheree Woods: And so absolutely the biggest purchase I've made in my life. Paula Sabbagha: So what's one of the most creative solutions you've ever come up with for a client? That had a challenge. Sheree Woods: Well, I think that everybody can can provide some creativity, but when you help somebody out of a problem, I think that is, you know, when you help them solve for X and they had no way to solve for X, I think that's where you get the best, problem solving. And we had a, a widow one time. Sheree Woods: She and her husband had bought a really substantial home. It was going to be there forever. Home. They had not built up a lot of equity in it. And when he passed away, and fortunately, she didn't need this gargantuan home and this huge debt hanging over her. Right, wasn't a lot of equity. There where she could just sell it out and buy something with cash. Sheree Woods: Right. She wanted something happy medium. And, we were able to show her how we could get her in the home. She had no income. She had Social Security, and that was it. Wealthy lady. Was it the right time for her to sell out of some stocks? It was going to make a huge tax issue. And so we were able to show her how she could sell that home, go into a brand new home.
Sheree Woods: We were able to use some alternative ways of proving income for her. So not just Social Security and, you know, get her into $100,000 house. I mean, we were able to really show her, how we could use alternative sources of income. Got her into the nice, happy medium house that she wanted, got her to a payment that really could work for her, and she could handle it. Sheree Woods: She couldn't handle that huge, house payment on her own. You know, when you could make somebody sleep better at night? That's really, I think the the problem solving that really makes us all feel better. And, you know, when you help somebody solve for X, I think those are the, the best types of problem solving you can do. Paula Sabbagha: So back to our industry. So this is a compliance heavy high stakes environment. How do you lead and empower others. Paula Sabbagha: With all the compliance and the rules that have to be followed. Sheree Woods: Well, I mean, that's, you know, that's that's something that you evolve around, right? I think when I first got into this industry, I'm not kidding you. I had a financial advisor that called me Miss Compliance because I was always explaining the rules. And there's a right way to do that, and there's a wrong way to do that. And you don't want to be seen as the person that just regurgitates, you know, rules to everybody. Sheree Woods: Right? But again, educating, if it's a financial advisor, why we're asking these questions. Right. That I'm not just pulling something out of thin air. There's a reason behind why I'm asking the questions. That helps me, you know, walk the fine line between, you know, what we have to do versus what we want to do. And, I think if everybody's aware of why you're doing something or why you're questioning something, then, you know, they they earn your respect and they're willing to work with you. Sheree Woods: And the outcome is great for everybody. You know, when you're when you're willing to listen and, and be educated and educate others, it's a win win for everybody.
Paula Sabbagha: I agree totally. Education is the the thing that's missing in a lot of things. But I think if we can focus on that and get people kind of buying into the why, that's very, very helpful. Sheree Woods: And it was an evolution too, because when I first started, I knew there was a lot of regulations in this world and we had to follow the rules. And I was, you know, spitting out the rules and not really telling the why behind it. And so I've evolved in that and hopefully I can do a better job of it these days than I did when I was a green in first in the industry. Sheree Woods: But it's definitely, been in the evolution there too. Paula Sabbagha: So if you think about all the compliance and all the things we've talked about the industry already, what advice would you give to young women looking to break into the financial service industry or mortgage banking? Sheree Woods: You know, I look back on my career and I think, you know, look as big as possible, like, don't limit yourself to just that small town mentality or wherever you grow up. Right? And whatever you're looking at always go bigger. You know, coming out of college, I thought Savannah was just the thing. I thought that was the best. Sheree Woods: And, you know, as I've evolved and now, you know, our headquarters is in, right outside of New York and Weehawken and we have to go to New York quite often. I'm like, wow, you know, look at this. You know, I started out in Savannah, and here I am, you know, traveling to New York in new Jersey very often. Sheree Woods: And, you know, there's only 23 people in my role, right now. So that's pretty unique within this country and in our company. And so to say that I'm one of 23 in the country is a lot different than saying I'm one of 500 in the country like I used to be, when I was with the commercial Bank. Sheree Woods: But, you know, think bigger, I think is is what you need to be shooting for instead of just thinking, well, this is as far as I can go or this is the highest level I can get. Always think bigger or always be looking for the bigger, bigger status or the bigger, level that you could attain.
Paula Sabbagha: And I'm sure you'd say your mentors kind of helped you, like come to that discovery that think bigger and that, oh, I can do more. Sheree Woods: And, you know, you sort of gravitate to those people that are are helping you. Yes. It's kind of funny, but every banker in Savannah, we pretty much use the same hairdresser, all the females. And you know, when you start comparing notes with all these women and what they're doing and what their what their next step is, and you kind of get into the groove of Shereeng best practices and, and like I said, you take things from everybody you meet. Sheree Woods: It's not that just one person, you know, helped me in my career. It's every person you come in contact with. You take a little piece until you combine it and you become the well-rounded banker that hopefully, we all are. Paula Sabbagha: Let's talk a minute about trends and kind of where the industry is going. What are some trends that you're seeing now and how clients are thinking about homeownership compared to maybe 5 or 10 years back? Sheree Woods: I mean, you know, five years back, certainly we were in super low interest rate environment. So that's different, right? But usually our clientele, they're going to buy a house whether rates are high or low. Right. They're going to get into that house one way or the other. And I think what they're looking at is the overall financial picture. Sheree Woods: Does it make sense to have debt on this asset? Does it make sense for me to pay cash for it? And you have to look at it from all levels. And it all goes back to financial planning. And you know, how we help, clients in that realm. Does it make sense to take on this debt? Then there's a lot of strategy.
Sheree Woods: If you know that you want to take on debt for a mortgage, there's different strategies for different people. You've got high net worth clients that say, there is no reason for me to buy this property in this extremely, desirable market and pay principal against the mortgage. I want to ride interest only as long as I possibly can. Sheree Woods: Because they're not, you know, worried about paying for the house, and they're going to move on before that thing's paid off, right? They're not worried about depreciation. They know the assets are going to appreciate or they feel really strongly about it. So I think if you think about old school mortgages, you think more. Let me get rid of it as fast as possible. Sheree Woods: Let me pay this principal down as fast as possible. And that doesn't ring true these days. We've got a lot of clients whose strategy is just pay interest. Let the home stand for itself. It will appreciate when I decide to move on to the next best thing. I'm going to make money on this house. So why am I throwing so much principle towards it? Sheree Woods: When I get put that towards a business, or towards my kids education or some other need out there? But you know, that's that's sort of the change in the mortgage industry, I think, is that that people are looking at ways that mortgage could actually fit into the financial plan, rather than just getting rid of it as fast as possible. Paula Sabbagha: And I can think of a few people I've had conversations with right before they retire. And that's kind of just what you do is you say, well, I'm retiring. Shouldn't I pay off my mortgage? And right, it's not always yes. You know, there's so many other things to consider. So I think that's a really good point. If your rate is still low, you know, low enough, you know, compared, you know, to what you're earning.
Paula Sabbagha: So yeah, lots of ways to look at it. But like you said, financial planning helps figure that out for each person. So how has technology changed the way that you connect with clients or manage relationships? Sheree Woods: So, you know, during Covid it's almost like I felt like we got closer to our clients because we were having video chats. Whereas before you'd pick up the phone and make a really quick call because maybe you were going to see the person the next month, right? I felt like we had more quality conversations via video chat than we did would do on the normal, you know, quick call, because so many people were using video chat, even, you know, older people, younger people, everybody was into it. Sheree Woods: And we were sort of forced, you know, to to have meetings that way. So, it worked out really well. I mean, the technology aspect, when it came to closing mortgages, you still have to show up in person, for those or you have to have a notary in-person. So you had you had to, close on a mortgage back when we had the really strict rules. Sheree Woods: I mean, we would even have people passing things. No lie in a doggy door at home, like the the the notary would go out to the house and they would pass documents through the doggy door so that they didn't have to be face to face with the client. But where there's a will, there's a way. And I mean, that was, you know, what the client preferred. Sheree Woods: So that's what we did. But, you know, you you definitely had to, had to shift and, make accommodations during Covid and not the most technical thing in the world to use the doggy door to close on a mortgage. But it made that client feel good. And that, you know, what we had to do. You know, that was probably the most interesting closing we had during Covid.
Paula Sabbagha: Well, in Shirley, DocuSign makes things, you know, so much easier. Gosh, as many signatures as a mortgage requires. Sheree Woods: Well, you know, I mean, in our world, you know, just ten years ago, we were still doing things on paper with wet signatures, and we used DocuSign for a lot of things now, which is really great. Paula Sabbagha: So what do you think the future of home financing looks like from a human first perspective? So not really rates, but like how we approach the process. Sheree Woods: I think it's getting more personal. I mean, maybe it's because we're on this side of things and we we do handhold a little bit more, but I feel like it's getting more personal. You, you, you know, if you're we're just walking into a corner bank on the street and asking a stranger for a mortgage, I just feel like we're getting away from that a little bit more, you know? Sheree Woods: And we're going with people we know we're going with contacts that our family has, and we're getting introduced to people that can help them. Right. So I feel I feel like it's getting more personal. I don't know if that's how every banker feels, but in my opinion, we're getting more personal about it. It's not just a transaction. Paula Sabbagha: Yeah, absolutely. Just like a client asking for, you know, a CPA referral or an attorney, I feel like it's kind of on that same level that they want someone that has, you know, their friend has used before that they have, you know, a story about it. Sheree Woods: You want somebody that's going to be consultative with you, right? You don't want somebody just to process you. You like a number. You want somebody to handhold and explain things and, really get personal with you and I. I feel like it's moving in the right direction in that, in that way. Paula Sabbagha: Right. Absolutely. So what's the most rewarding part of your job?
Sheree Woods: Oh my goodness. I mean, I really think, you know, helping people. I mean, people may think that, you know, because you're dealing with ultra high net worth clients a lot that, you know, maybe you don't help as much as if you were, you know, working for a, I don't know, a nonprofit or something. But these families and these individuals absolutely appreciate what you're doing for them. Sheree Woods: And then, you know, I kind of look at you guys, the financial advisors as my client as well. So when you help a financial advisor solidify their relationship with a client, I mean, that's super rewarding. So, you know, it's not all about the, the money. It's and and the dollars and the big deals. It's not about that. It's more the connections and and making that relationship more solid. Paula Sabbagha: Absolutely. So what keeps you coming back every day? Sheree Woods: I love people, you know, I, you know, has, you know, when I travel to your office, you know, it's it's, I've got, you know, 23 offices. So I get around, to a lot of, a lot of places. And that is probably what keeps the monotony out of it, because I don't have to be in the same office every day, and I can I can, you know, be with different people every day of the week if I wanted to or if I had the time to do it. Paula Sabbagha: So thinking back to your younger self, if you could go back in time and give your younger self one piece of advice, when you started in this field, what would it be? Sheree Woods: You know, we started out back in the day. We still used fax machines. We didn't even have email and we older than you, Paula. We had a Rolodex, you know, with with our client phone numbers and friends phone numbers in the Rolodex. You know, I would have kept a better Rolodex for all my contacts, I think, like, I'm not kidding.
Sheree Woods: Like, you know, I think back to some of my clients in Savannah, and I'm like, I wonder what they're doing these days. I have no idea how to get in touch with those people. Right. Because we we divorced the Rolodex and then we went to a Palm Pilot, if you remember that, as you probably don't remember this, we went to the Palm Pilot and then eventually the iPhone came out. Sheree Woods: And so, you know, I didn't keep up with all those contacts. And I really wish I did because, you know, I had great relationships with some people. And it's not that I want business out of them. I just really want to know what's going on with their life. So I wish I would have kept in contact with people from day one a little bit better, and that would have meant graduating from the Rolodex, putting all the information into the Palm Pilot, putting all the information into the IPO. Sheree Woods: And just as simple as being able to keep up with all those contacts, I think would have been would have been really helpful. And maybe it's a sign of the times, because I started before LinkedIn was was ever a thing before Facebook was everything. Twitter. So it's easier to, you know, keep in contact with people with new contacts that you make these days. Sheree Woods: But there's older ones. It's it's a little tougher to go back and connect with those people again. Paula Sabbagha: I was made fun of because I had a three ring binder full of business cards from like years ago, like ten, 15 years ago from people I met, you know, from work and events. But, some of the younger people made fun of me. Sheree Woods: So, yeah, don't be ashamed of that, because I really wish I had that still. Right. I'm pretty sure there is a way that we can scan, business cards, you know, into some sort of database. So maybe we should. We should, invest in that. And, you know, we're so high tech that we can just, you know, give our contact information with a QR code these days, like, my business card is a QR code.
Sheree Woods: I would have ever thought that. Right. Who would have ever thought so? Paula Sabbagha: Last question. What is something people would be surprised to learn about you, professional or personal? Sheree Woods: Oh my goodness. You know, when I inherited a new office, we played this game called two truths and a lie. And so this is a Tetris and a lie that I tell people, and then you tell me which one you think is a lie. You want to do that? Yeah. Okay. Number one, I have an official Wilton cake decorating certificate. Sheree Woods: Number two, I am a big NASCAR fan. Number three, I won a jump rope competition when I was 12. Paula Sabbagha: Okay, I think that one's true. I think the NASCAR part is a lie. Sheree Woods: Well, you would be wrong because I am a NASCAR fan and I do have a Wilton cake decorating certificate. Said the jump rope is the title lie. Paula Sabbagha: Wow, I could see you jump roping. Yeah, you got me now. Sheree Woods: I could get jump rope. I mean, I can jump rope, but not fancy or not for a long time, right? Paula Sabbagha: So NASCAR. So who's your favorite driver then? Sheree Woods: Well, of course, Chase Elliott. I'm from Georgia. So you to support the Georgia boy. Easy peasy. And it's embarrassing because I am the better sports person in my family. My husband doesn't know anything. I could tell him who won. I tell him what happened. And, you know, the numbers on the NASCAR cars. He's like, who's number eight? Sheree Woods: I'm like, you should know that. Like, anyway, it's sort of embarrassing.
Paula Sabbagha: Where can people find more information? Of course, if clients want to talk to you, you know, we as the advisors can help them. But are there any, like, websites or resources that you like to kind of direct people to if they have questions? Sheree Woods: Well, if they're definitely want to talk to me about something, I always direct people to their financial advisor because that's the the conduit, right? We, rarely would reach out to someone's client, almost never without the permission of the financial advisor. So we always want to work through that financial advisor. But just for information outside of of anything that's related to to our company, NerdWallet. Sheree Woods: I love information from NerdWallet. I love information, if you're wanting to do some calculators and Dinkytown dot net love that that's not affiliated with us at all, but it's got great calculators on it. Whether you want to run a retirement scenario or, mortgage scenario. You know, if I make an extra payment once per year, how fast will I get rid of my mortgage? Sheree Woods: That kind of stuff. So there's a lot of great tools out there on the internet these days. And, you know, a lot of times people will come to me and they'll say, can you prepare and amortization table for me? And I'm like, amortization is the same no matter where you are, so you don't have to have it prepared by the actual company that's doing your mortgage. Sheree Woods: Amortization is the same. So, find a good amortization tool if you're trying to work on some, some mortgage, hypotheticals. And it'll help you out a lot. But, yeah, like, like the internet is a great source of information about financial information, but absolutely, folks should be trusting their financial advisor with any kind of question that they have. Sheree Woods: And that is the conduit they get to me. Paula Sabbagha: Well that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking time to share a little bit about your story, and thank you for all that you do for us and for our clients. Sheree Woods: Thank you for having me. And I have a ball with you guys. So thanks so much for including me. Paula Sabbagha: Thank you Sheree, thanks for.
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