And then fortunately, I made it to the big leagues in nineteen ninety and started making a little bit of money. Uh, I think I started at one hundred thousand, and then it went to two hundred and then three hundred and then arbitration. You know, you get the big jump in arbitration. So I went from like three seventy five to one point eight, I think, because I won like thirteen games. Uh, my third year had a good season. So then it becomes, you know, being able to save it. And uh, I remember starting with forty thousand put in, uh, five hundred index fund. I think it's still there. Welcome to Self Equity, the podcast that dives into the inspiring journeys of founders, entrepreneurs, athletes and entertainers. I'm your host, Jolene Tepedino, authorised officer and team business manager for the Tzelniker Dorfman Kar and Heritage Group at UBS. Today, on episode seventeen of Self Equity, we're joined by John Burkett, a sixteen year MLB player turned professional bowler. During his baseball career, John pitched for the Giants, Braves, Rangers, Marlins and Red Sox, earning two all star selections and over one hundred and sixty career wins. After baseball, he pursued his lifelong passion for bowling and became the Pba50 tour champion from the mound to the lanes. John has shown how discipline and adaptability can drive long term success in completely different areas. Joining me today is co-host is Christopher Bostic, financial advisor for the Zellmer Dorfman Car and Heritage Group. Hi, John. Hey, Julie. How you doing? I'm well. Thanks. Great to see you. Thanks for joining our self equity podcast today. Yeah. No problem. It's my pleasure. John, for those who may not know you, can you please introduce yourself? Okay. I'm John Burkett.
I'm known as a major League Baseball player, played from nineteen eighty three, but I got drafted by the Giants in the sixth round. spent seven years in the minor leagues and fifteen inches the big leagues. Twenty two years total. And then after that I currently am on the Pba50 Bowling Tour. That was that was my dream as a youngster and, uh, or one of my dreams. And so now I'm able to live that out as an old man. So I'm having a good time with it. Love it. That's great. John, looking back on your amazing career, what is one moment or a couple of moments that you might share with us that stand out as, you know, the peak of your career? Well, I think when you said that the first thing that stands out to me is nineteen ninety, when I first got called up. Uh, it was a makeup game. We had a strike shortened season that year, and so it was a makeup game at Dodger Stadium. And the Giants and Dodgers were huge rivals. And so I was called up just to pitch one game. And, uh, it happened to have a good game, pitch seven innings and gave up two runs. And that was kind of the beginning of my career because they couldn't send me down after that game. So I got I got to pitch again in Montreal and pitch good again. So those two games kind of stand out as if they didn't happen. I wouldn't be talking with you right now, but probably the The Peak other than that is winning twenty games in nineteen ninety three. You know, for the San Francisco Giants, we won one hundred and three games and did not get in the playoffs. We're the last team to win one hundred games and not make the playoffs. The nineteen ninety three San Francisco Giants, uh, we got beat out by the Braves in the last game of the season, and then the next one would probably be game one of the nineteen ninety six Division Series. I came over to the Texas Rangers as a gun for hire.
And, uh, my first start was a good one in Toronto. And then I ended up finishing strong and pitching the first game. First playoff game for the Texas Rangers, pitched a complete game at Yankee Stadium and beat the Derek Jeter Bernie Williams, later to be, you know, one of the best teams ever. Uh, you know, in game one of the ninety six Division series, six to two. So, John, I actually debuted in Dodger Stadium as well. What a place to debut, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's still just every time I see that stadium on TV, it's just it stands the test of time. Right. Yeah. The weather's always perfect. It's just a great place to play baseball. You know, during my career, I had no idea, you know, the last time that I played that it would be the last time I played. You obviously played for a lot longer than I did. I think you were thirty eight last year. You played, you know, you pitched, you know, game six of the ALCS that year. You started. Right. And you know, famously Aaron Boone hits a walk off home run the next game. Did you kind of have an inkling that it was, you know, maybe going to be the last time that you played or, you know, what was your feeling at that point? I did so two thousand and three. The twins were nine years old. And then I had another daughter that was seven gonna be eight, and I just felt like I was missing their life and I felt like I played long enough. Yeah, I was really I was really trying to win a World Series. That's really all I had left, you know, to do. And we came so close to getting there and it didn't happen. So those things kind of all came together and, you know, just I knew that was going to be my last year. You know what most people say, you don't you don't get to choose when you stop. You know, you're sounds like you were one of the lucky ones that got to choose when it was over. Yeah, and with no regrets. I mean, I you know, after that, I was actually on a ski lift, and the Yankees were calling my agent to be their fifth starter that year, and, uh, they called three, two or three times. And I just kept saying, nope, I'm on a ski lift. I'm staying here. I'm staying here. If you remember the two thousand and four season, the Yankees had a three nothing lead in the championship series, and the Red Sox came back and won four straight. Yeah, but my wife says, hey, have you had a pitch game four and you would have changed. History would have been terrible to be on that team. And after being on the Red Sox with the eleventh dramatic home run to to the one of the greatest comebacks, the greatest comeback in championship series. So I guess kind of a follow up question to that. Obviously, you know, we talk money on this on this podcast. You know, how good of a feeling kind of kind of walk through the idea of being able to know that, hey, I don't need to keep playing to, you know, shore up my financial future. You know, I've taken enough chips off the table. Kind of run me through that. Right. Well, that's another part of it, right? We're fortunate enough. I was fortunate enough to play in an The area where we were able to make enough money to. If you did the right things, to feel comfortable that it could last through your lifetime.
So I was very fortunate to meet, you know, really good people, and they kind of showed me the way. And here I am today. I'm able to travel, they're able to spend time with my kids and don't have to work. So kind of like elaborate on that a little bit. Tell me about, you know, your your draft experience, how much you signed for. Obviously you played in the minor leagues. You know, it's interestingly enough wasn't all that different when I was there. We didn't get paid a whole lot to play minor league baseball. You know, kind of run us through that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I signed in nineteen eighty three, like I said, in the sixth round, I was making a dollar fifty an hour at the bowling alley that I was working at. I'd signed a contract for twelve thousand five hundred dollars. So that was super exciting. And I got my first car in eighty one prelude. With that money, I had a little bit left over first year in rookie ball, six hundred dollars a month, and you only get paid while you're playing. You know, next year, seven hundred or eight hundred, it just creeps up very slowly. You're not making a lot of money and everybody works during the off season. And then fortunately, I made it to the big leagues in nineteen ninety and started making a little bit of money. Uh, I think I started at one hundred thousand, and then it went to two hundred and then three hundred and then arbitration. You know, you get the big jump in arbitration. So I went from like three seventy five to one point eight, I think, because I won like thirteen games my third year. Had a good season. So then it becomes, you know, being able to save it. And uh, I remember starting with forty thousand put in uh, five hundred index fund. I think it's still there. I don't think I ever touched it. So that's still there today. It'll be a case study. Yeah, we you know, it was a conservative kind of approach. And, you know, that's not a bad thing. Dollar cost averaging later on, you know, and just buying things when they're down and just keeping an eye on certain I mean I probably have like one hundred stocks that I keep an eye on. And uh, I just keep adding to them whenever they, whenever, when they're a good price. But I always paid a lot of attention to it, I love it. I still watch the stock market every day. I watch what things are doing. I just I just love numbers and the math and you know, so I just it's something I enjoy doing so.
It's been a lot of fun. Talk a lot about financial literacy with, you know, the players that that we manage. Um, and, you know, we're always so interested to see how the landscape has changed. You know, now there are different programs. There's, you know, things are available. I think it's also a more educated, you know, player, maybe at this time, what was available to you though, like separate from your agent or an advisor? Did they have like a playbook like that back then? No. And I think that's probably why you had a lot of horror stories. I'm not aware of the programs that they have today. Yeah. I mean, you would think that the players Association would have something like that in place so that these guys have somewhere to go and someone to trust that can guide them in the right direction, because it's just terrible to see people make so much money in such a short amount of time, and they're not able to keep it. I've heard so many times you're like, wow, how did that guy make so much money? And he lost all his money. And what they don't understand is a lot of them have family and friends, and when you start making that kind of money, you know, you just feel you feel kind of guilty. I think in a way, you know, and you start helping people and, you know, and you never say no. And the next thing you know, you know, that person could be in trouble themselves. So I've seen it happen to a few guys here and there, I think. I think a lot of fans think that that person spent all that money, and that's just not how it is, right? A lot of it is just through their generosity that ends up, you know, beating them at the end.
So during the off season, did you go back to the bowling alley to work? I did, I worked at UPS. Also I was I worked for referee day Friday morning. Uh got loading uh, UPS trucks, which is a good thing because I kind of showed me that I didn't want to do that the rest of my life. Even though UPS is a great company and a lot of I actually have three friends that retired from there. So. But man, it's a hard job. I don't care if it's snowing. I don't care if it's thirty five and raining pouring down rain. I am going to get my running in. I did not want to be picking up those packages. I mean, I remember loading unloading a tractor trailer and I called it the feeders. You know, you feed, they feed the packages from there into the building. And so I remember unloading the couple there was one time and my back was killing me, but we were coworkers just like blown away that, you know, they were, you know, loading trucks with an MLB player. I think they kind of got a kick out of it, you know, kind of staying out there like, oh, yeah, this is a tough job, man. Yeah, it was at three thirty to eight thirty. And then you go to breakfast and then you were going right to bed and, you know, making sure you got your rest that night because at three thirty you gotta be ready to go again. It was, it was it was tough. One thing I kind of want to get into is, you know, the union, right? The players union, not a lot of people don't really know or will never really know what it's like to be sitting in a clubhouse and having one of those meetings.
Right? So I'm interested to kind of hear your perspective as a player who kind of of the past. Right. Like, uh, you mentioned you made about one hundred thousand dollars your first year when I debuted, the major league minimum was five hundred and thirty five thousand. Right. So give me just some insight, like, you know, how do you feel about the money that the players are making now, and you know your relationship to how you made money when you played. Yeah. Good point. I, uh, I was back in the fair and generous days and we had to work stoppages and, uh, yeah, we thought we made money back then. These guys now it's just crazy. So you could easily be jealous of them, which I am. You know, I gotta admit, I'm a little jealous. But I also feel proud. You know, the fact that I was part of, uh, three work stoppages that have kind of put things and kept things in place. Uh, we've lost things here and there, you know, a couple bargaining situations here and there, but nothing catastrophic. And so guys are able to still have kind of a free market. And now you're seeing the results for that. Like I compare it like I tell people about the golfers. You know, with the live tour, a lot of people were against the guys that went to live, you know, and I'm a big, big PGA fan. So I, I want those guys to all be together. But I do understand because those guys that are actually free agents. Right. That's what happens whenever you have free agents and you have somebody that's willing to pay them. Uh, those guys got those big, you know, two, three hundred million dollar That's even more, I guess a couple of them. It's amazing. Rory McIlroy and Tiger, those guys didn't take the seven eight hundred billion dollars forever wherever they're being offered. But baseball, you're just trying to have a free system for your, you know, a free system, free to go shop your talents to anybody. You you can, you know, and and baseball has the self-control, you know, with the first three years and, and then you have three years of arbitration.
But at least it's not like the NFL. You know, I think the NFL guys really have a tough I really wish that they, uh, I mean, those guys are really putting their life really putting their lives on the line. It seems like they're not treated fairly in my opinion. You get the big guys that make the huge money. But do you think that's a numbers thing? Like obviously football rosters are bigger. I mean, like I said before, being part of those those meetings, everybody's on the same page. Right. And baseball, it seems it's like, look, we're we're here for ourselves, but we're here for the next generation as well. Correct? Yeah. It's always been that way. I mean, you know, we appreciated the Curt Flood's of the world, you know, from back in the sixties. And, uh, you know, those guys kind of got free agency Go on. You know, for all of us. Like I said, I was just very proud to be a part of that, maintaining as much as we could. The system that was in place and not having a hard cap, you know, like the NFL. It was very difficult because like I said, you have those guys making the quarterbacks and the now you have edge rushers and stuff, making all that, all that money. And I hate to say the word cap, but I think it'd be yeah, they have they have a salary cap. So it'd be cool if they could somehow figure out the percentages and those some of these other guys, like the running backs that are taking a beating, could make more money. Fortunately, baseball, we don't have that. I don't know if there's there's probably not so much balance either in baseball. Right. It's not as much of a gap. At least you'll still see a, you know, a closer getting paid big dollars and things like that. So it's not as big of a gap as there is the football for sure. Right. And I think the starting pitching is probably kind of, uh, thinned out. Right. There's not as many guys grow six, seven. You can call them starters, you know. Yeah, yeah. Over the last couple of years it's changed quite a bit. Right. So I would think that like middle relievers or what do they call them, low, low leverage or whatever. Yeah, leverage and high leverage guys. Right. So the lower leverage guys that probably don't make as much money. Right. And if you have less starters, you know, that kind of brings those salaries down and kind of balances it out a little bit I guess.
Others are making a lot of money. Get that straight. Be honest. Making a lot of money. And that's why they're paying us. I hate when I hear people saying, I can't believe these players are making as much money. And they said to me, they're like, can you believe these guys are making this much money? I said, oh yeah, I believe that the owners are making a ton of money. That's why they're paying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should you should see their paychecks. I mean, there's still benefits, right? Like, uh, I want to talk a little bit about the pension. I know you're you're not at the sixty two level yet. I'm not sure if you've started to take it or not, but obviously that's not. Yeah. My wife wanted to have a party for me when I was sixteen. I said, I go, no, no, I'll wait till I'm sixty two. That's gonna be there you go. Yeah. Because that's when I start collecting my pension. So that's great. So how is that factored into your life? I mean, did you even think about that during the times when you were, uh, you know, when you were retiring, you know, before you were forty years old? Or was that kind of been something that's been more recently that you started to think more about is, hey, I've got this pension check that's, uh, that's due to come in soon. Well, I mean, I definitely look forward to it. I don't want to turn sixty two too quickly. Right. But, uh. Yeah, but, you know, it's something, as you know, when we played, that was like the goal. What you get. The way the pension, uh, and Major League Baseball works is you. I think you get a pension the first day you get called out forty three days. Oh, forty three days. You need. Okay. So. So then it's broken down to forty quarters, I guess, after that. And once you get forty quarters, which is ten years, then you're maxed out on the pension. So anybody that has ten years gets the same pension as Nolan Ryan with twenty five years. They're all the same. And I believe, uh, forty five, I think it was I'm pretty educated on this. I can't that changes all the time, but it was probably around seventy or eighty grand at forty five. At sixty two, it's two hundred and eighty thousand. I knew right away that I was going to wait and wait and wait until unless I had to take it. I think around I did the math around fifty five and anywhere after fifty five. You're pretty good. You could take it. You're fine. I think we had the best pension as far as team sports goes. Yeah. So talk talk a little bit about the PGA thing. It's I'm interested to hear about uh you know, obviously you said you've been bowling since you were young. Uh, it's been a passion of yours. I really felt like I was going to be a professional bowler all the way through high school. I grew up in a small town. Nobody ever got drafted. Baseball. My my school. And, uh, I was from a very small school. I was always good at Little League and all that, but you just don't ever think you're going to make it to the big leagues. And then I got drafted, so I ended up doing baseball first. But bowling has always been probably my first love, you know. And then after, after I retired from baseball, I, I bowled some PBA events here and there while I was playing. And then after I retired, I took up poker for like ten years, did that for a little while.
And then at forty nine, I thought to myself, wow, I can this is my opportunity to, you know, kind of sharpen my game up and go out and try to compete with Pete Weber and Parker Bohn Affair and Walter Ray Williams Jr and Norm Duke and all the big names of the past. So, so in with this twenty twenty five. So, so twenty fourteen I started bowling the senior tour with those guys. It took me eight years to win and I won in twenty twenty two, in Hammond, Indiana, one of my first national title. And then I just won again, uh, in August. What does that season look like? Is it is it regular or do you kind of choose when you want to go out there or. No, it's it's well it's only like fourteen tournaments. So it runs from April till like the end of April till the middle of August. We bought like two weeks take a week off and yeah. So it's a light schedule and uh, it's just condensed into from April to August. John, speaking of of strikes, I'm always amazed when, you know, when we speak to players, when they break down their craft, their talent, you know, the decisions, quick decisions that you have to make and, you know, milliseconds. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Um, I mean, we know that you're known for your strong command of the strike zone. But what is it like? You know, striking someone out? That's a great question. That's not one of the people to ask me too many times. So, uh, what I loved about it was the mind game, and I. I'm not a power pitcher, so I knew that that early on. And I had to kind of trick people, you know, kind of figure it out with my head and figure out what they're looking for based on their body reaction to certain pitches and then going the opposite direction. So a lot of guys, especially nowadays, it's all about the swing and a miss, right. Overpowering somebody, making them swing and miss. But to me, I loved just locking a hitter up to where he thought I was going to throw a fastball away, and I throw a fastball in and he just locks up and he just starts walking to the dugout. I just thought that was the best. The best, uh, rush from, you know, from a starting pitcher, from a pitcher in general. I just loved the fact that you could trick somebody mentally into thinking you were going to do one thing, and you did the complete opposite, right? Like one of my favorite things, one of my favorite things to do as a pitcher, Chris I love this one. So if Someone. If I threw a fastball into anybody, especially like a left hander, I like to work. I met a lot with cutters and sinkers back over the plate, but if they took me like five hundred feet deep foul, I came right back in there, right in the same spot. So a lot of people were gonna run away, right? So they're gonna throw it away or change up or something different. Same thing if someone takes me deep. Probably not. Early in my career, I didn't do this stuff. Yeah, but as I get older, I learned if someone took me deep on a pitch, I'd start him out with that same pitch the next time out. Yep. And if I film a curveball and he took me deep next, next time up. First pitch curveball.
And you know, the looks I got from guys, they look at me like, what are you doing? You know, it's that's a that's such a cool explanation because I think, you know obviously I'm a newer, newer player. Right. But I kind of am an older soul. And I think that we're missing a lot of the the art of the game these days. Now it's all taking it from, from a canvas and an art brush to a spreadsheet. And it's interesting hearing that. I mean, there's a mental aspect of the game that can sometimes take you further than your physical talent can. So it's interesting hearing that from you. Yeah, I agree with you. You don't see that or I don't think I'm seeing that today, you know. Yeah. And another thing too, I had to call my own game. I just would never be able to. I see guys looking at the dugout and stuff all the time. I just couldn't do that. I couldn't I wouldn't be able to commit to a pitch that I thought it was just somebody else's idea that I didn't, you know, I felt like it had to be. I'm probably controlling in a way, but. But I just feel like that I. I got to know my game more than somebody else. So I always had a hard time with that, even when I first got called to the big leagues. Gary Carter was my catcher. I was so stressed out when I got to the ballpark because I'm like, this guy's been playing for fifteen years, right? He's one of the greatest catchers of all time. But but this might be my only chance. And I'm not going to be on the mound and just go, okay, okay. Okay. Right.
I have to have my own game plan, my own idea of what I want to do. And so I told myself, I gotta tell him. I gotta pull him aside and talk to him. So I was like, Mr. Carter, I gotta talk to you about something before we. Before we go out there. He's like, what? I told him, I just told you. I said, I have to, like, call my own game. I said, but if you. I respect your being around for so long and you know what you're doing. I said, if you feel like I'm throwing definitely throwing the wrong pitch, just give me an aggressive, you know. No, let's go with the fastball, you know. Yeah. And he was like good. He goes, we can do that. I said, yeah. He was a great guy. So I got lucky to have someone like that guy, you know, happened to catch my, you know, my first game, so. So it worked really well. That's cool. Are there any other stories like that of baseball people? Right. So we can we can put the face on and not be kind of, uh, starstruck. But you know, I remember there are a couple different situations where I played in Miami in twenty eighteen. So having having Don Mattingly as a manager was kind of like, whoa, that's oh yeah, that's crazy, right? You know, and yeah, I can I can remember playing against the Reds, you know, back during that time and working the walk and Joey Votto being on first base, telling me, you know, good at bat. And I remember just being like, that's crazy. Like, do you have any stories like that? I mean, I just for me, like the nineteen eighty four Cubs, I was I was always a Pirates fan. I grew up in Pittsburgh, but in eighty four I was in Clinton, Iowa and A-ball and we had no money. So we were watching the games. The Cubs were on WGN, you know, Harry Carey, the whole thing. Well, they ended up having a great year. So I ended up like loving the Cubs that year. But when I finally got called to the big leagues for good in nineteen ninety, those guys were still playing Sam Barry. You know, a lot of a lot of the same players were there and, and Andre Dawson and but I remember pitching against the Cubs at Wrigley, I was just like, this is unbelievable. I can't believe I'm here pitching against these guys. I mean, you're scared to death, but you turn into adrenaline and just like you're scared to death. You got to get out of the album. Get out of this trouble, right? It's a pretty amazing feeling when you first get called up, and it just happens every time. I mean, it's just every. You know, Pete Rose, I was there.
You know, it was just Tommy Lasorda with the Dodgers. I mean, it's just crazy. I mean, you meet I met Willie Mays. So, Willie, I tell people, Willie Mays, you always hear him real quiet. And, you know, he's, you know, very nice and, you know. And then I met him in San Francisco. I met him in the clubhouse, you know, being him. He was cocky, talking smack. I was like, man, this isn't the Willie Mays that I grew up, you know, seeing, like, I'm like, I don't know if I like this guy, but he's just one of us. He was just pure. Just great guy. Yeah. Willie McCovey was super quiet. I never got to know him. Yeah, he was super quiet as you saw him. I never really got to know. The Willie was just so outspoken. And so he's so different than, like, what you hear on TV and on commercials and stuff, you know? But a good different. But yeah, all those experiences are just amazing. Sometimes you just got to pitch yourself and you just can't believe you're there. Again, as you're saying that, I'm thinking to myself, like, is that I mean, it has to be the craziest feeling between the lights and the crowds and your coaches and your teammates and the other team. And if there's a rival, I mean, do you get used to it? I mean, is there always that feeling? I mean, what is it like? I've always had that feeling like when I walk into a major league stadium, I just get that adrenaline, that excitement. You know, it's just especially the old familiar ones, you know, the Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium and Wrigley. And it's just so cool to walk in those stadiums. And the adrenaline part, like people ask me about that. One of the questions I get is the bowling and baseball and how they compare and how you deal with the pressure and all that. And like Jolene was saying, you just get so fired up, you know, in those stadiums. And the one thing about baseball is you can use that adrenaline as a starting pitcher, as a hitter, maybe not so much, but as a starting pitcher, a pitcher, you can use that adrenaline to your advantage with the crowd screaming and yelling and all that excitement where bowling, you have to do the opposite. You have to really calm down. And I think probably hitters are the same way. They they have their heart rate down. And, you know, they can't, uh, they can't be jumping at the ball too much. So that's the major difference between bowling and baseball. Bowling is really difficult. It was difficult for me to get that, you know, because I always started a little bit too hard without even trying because you get that heart rate gone. But, uh, I love baseball for that. You could just let it go. Did it feel like. Or does it feel like work? I mean, you know, you're you're playing sports that you enjoy and you love. Does it feel like you're having fun? What does it feel like to you? Well, uh, when you're doing well, it doesn't seem like work. Oh, when you're struggling, uh, it's. Everybody knows it, and, you know, it's in the newspapers and it's difficult. Yes, I'm sure it's that stuff that it's really ramped up right now because you got social media. We didn't have that. We just had to deal with the newspapers the next day. But today these guys have to deal with it, you know, twenty four hours a day. That's one part of it that I. I'm glad I don't have to deal with. It was hard enough playing in Boston, where, I mean, the Boston Globe was twenty pages of baseball.
You know, of guys that all had their own opinion of the same game, same quotes all over the newspaper. But it was, you know, the columnists are all writing their own angle on it. So that was amazing about being in Boston, just how important every game was to this fans. They wanted to hear everything about it. So that's what I loved about it. I was lucky to be there at the end of my career, you know? And you need that little juice, you know? I don't know if I'd like being here at the beginning in my career, but at the end, it was definitely the spot that I needed to be in. John, what mentors or teammates along your career, you know, do you think about, do you acknowledge? Um, you know, do you feel like someone took a shot on you or tell us a little bit about who was who was there for you, who had your back at the beginning was definitely, uh, first. First was Dusty Baker, who was the hitting coach for the Giants whenever I, when I got called up. Strange, right? For it to be someone that teaches you so much. But I sat next to him in the dugout if I was pitching against the Reds. Game three of the series. You know, I was sitting next to him the first two games, and he would go over all hitters with me. You know, because I'd just be picking his brain after I got to know him a little bit. I was just, you know, and we just went back and forth. Dusty gave me a hard time, you know, if I had the wrong opinion about somebody. I remember Billy Hatcher. I don't know if you remember Billy Hatcher. He's a short guy with short arms. Very good player. Dusty's like, okay, how you get a pitch, Billy? I go, I'm good, I'm sinkers. Then he goes, what's wrong with you, man? He goes, look at his arms, the little short arms. He's, you know, he's gonna take you down the left field line. He goes pitching away from breaking balls away. So that was kind of our relationship. So we'd go back and forth about that stuff all the time. But. But he was a big, big, big help for me. You know, getting the hitters side, the hitters point of view and what they're looking for and how they're treating their bats helped me a lot, you know. And then, uh, and then when dusty became the manager, he hired Dick poll as our pitching coach, and Dick was a really big influence on my career, too. He got me off the I threw a split finger in the minor leagues because Roger Craig was the manager at the time, and so he wanted to see guys throw split fingers. So I threw those. I threw a split finger for a while and but it was really taking a toll on my arm. And when Dick Cole came over, he had shown he had worked with Greg Maddux on his changeup. He was with the Cubs, and so he passed that on to me when he came to the Giants. And I was able to get away from the split finger that was taxing on my arm and throw more changeups, you know, which was a lot easier on my arm. So I probably wouldn't have lasted fifteen years. Throwing a split finger instead of a changeup. I was able to lean on that a little bit more.
Gave me some longevity, I think. But those two guys were big, big parts of the beginning of my career, and that's the most important time. You're trying to find yourself. You're trying to get comfortable after you after your first three or four years. You know, you kind of, you know, it all at that point, right? Just kidding. Do you think you know it all? But at least you have some kind of base, you know, to work with. And, uh, you get get your ups and downs and you're able to work through the hard times, you know, when it's not a job or when it is a job and not fun and you're you're able to figure it out that, hey, I can even if I lose five in a row. All right. I did this before. You know, I can get through this. But when you have those guys when you're young, they can help you work through that stuff. You know, it's super important. And those those two guys are definitely a big part of my, uh, beginning. Dusty's really good at that. It's cool to hear because, you know, my first year on a roster was actually with the national year that dusty was the manager there, showed up to spring training. I didn't get to play at all. But just having like, you know, he treated me as though I was just one of the other guys. You know, it was huge for me just from a confidence standpoint. Yeah. He's an amazing guy. Yeah, yeah. He, uh, he was the first manager and only manager I ever had that, uh, he took charter planes. Right. So we're on a charter flight. And so the charter flights, the way they work is the front office is in first class. Then it gets into the media. And then it gets into coaches and the media. And then you get the rookies. And then it works all the way back to the veteran guys. Right. And everybody kind of stays in their own space during the flights. Well dusty was the first manager I ever had that would, uh, come back and, you know, hang out with the players and stuff. If a guy was struggling, yeah, he'd come sit down with him and, you know, talk to him and be like, hey, man, you know, have a beer with him. And he was just unbelievable like that. Yeah. Did he, did he get the food for for players back then too? Because he would do. It was like a different guy every day.
You know you liked a restaurant or something. He would go and stop before, you know, before the day and pick up food there and leave it. Oh, really? No, he never did. Most of the stuff he started later on. My one. Dusty's first game. Did you? Yeah. So he managed. He. His first managing season was nineteen ninety three, opening day in Saint Louis. We won. Yeah, I was happy to see him get the World Series win. Man. That was. Yeah. Me too. Glad he got to go out like that. Me too. But yeah, these are definitely a special person. He's like. Like you said, he treats everybody the same and he knows when to talk, when to talk to you and when to help you out and when to let you go. And he's a pretty sharp guy. So, John, it seems like, you know, throughout your career you've always been a hustler, whether it's, you know, working in the off season, becoming the best at your craft, lots of sweat equity. One question that we like to ask everyone on the podcast is, what does sweat equity mean to you? Oh, man. I mean, just to me it was just starting the game. You know, he just thought he was going to be one. You always got to be trying to get better, right? I think as an athlete, that's what you have to always be striving to get better. You can't settle for how you are now. You know, it's just it's just at work, constantly watching other guys that are kind of compete the same way you do and take take things away from them that can help you. And always asking questions, always, like I said, just trying to get better. When I. When I played, it wasn't so much lifting weights and doing all that kind of thing. It was it was always, uh, how can you think and get better that way? Because we weren't allowed to do all the lifting and stuff that guys do today. But thank you so much for joining us today, John. It was great to hear all about your experiences and we really appreciate you sharing. All right John, it was awesome man. Yeah, I really enjoyed hanging out with you all. And yeah, anytime. This podcast is presented for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as investment advice or the basis for making any investment decisions. It does not constitute an offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any specific product or service. UBS does not provide legal or tax advice, and we would recommend listeners to obtain appropriate, independent professional advice. Some of the views and opinions expressed may not be those of UBS Group AG or its affiliates. UBS Financial Services, Inc. offers investment advisory services in its capacity as an SEC registered investment adviser, and brokerage services in its capacity as an SEC registered broker dealer. These services are separate and distinct. Differ in material ways, and are governed by different laws and separate arrangements. It is important that you understand the ways in which we conduct business, and that you carefully read the agreements and disclosures that we provide about the products or services we offer. For more information, please review client relationship summary provided at UBS. Summary UBS Financial Services, Inc. is a subsidiary of UBS Group AG and is a member of Finra and SIPC. <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">