Dan Smith: Welcome back to Dan has a plan: Beyond the balance sheet. I'm Daniel B. Smith, a certified financial planner on the Family Wealth Management team at UBS Financial Services. I'm joined by my daughter, Alanna J. Smith. Alanna Smith: We're back. Dan Smith: We're located in Paramus, New Jersey, and I can be reached at daniel.b.smith@ubs.com. Dan Smith: Our guest today is Bruce Haberli. Bruce is the head wrestling coach at NYU. New York University. Alanna Smith: How did we swing this one? Dan Smith: Gotta know people. Alanna Smith: You really do. This is a celebrity, because we've already talked about this one on the podcast. Dan Smith: So those of you who remember one of our previous episodes, Michael Worthington, a neighbor of ours is an avid wrestler. And Bruce being a wrestling coach and living in the same town, our paths crossed, obviously. But we have to circle back to baseball, which is really how we cross paths. So I had the good fortune of coaching Bruce's son, Roman. Alanna Smith: Right. Yes. Dan Smith: Another baseball reference. I'm sure the
audience has had their fill. Alanna Smith: I don't think they have. I think it's your signature. It's your stamp. Okay. So you were Roman's coach? Dan Smith: I was, and I had a great deal of fun coaching him. Obviously I got to know Bruce and his lovely wife Michelle. I also had the good fortune of on occasion coaching Roman's brother, Trevor. Gotta get a shout out to trv. Alanna Smith: Yeah, shout out to the whole Haberli team. Dan Smith: Yes. Yes. Alanna Smith: So what are your favorite things about Bruce? Dan Smith: H-U-M-O-R? Alanna Smith: Sense of humor. Dan Smith: He has the most tremendous sense of humor of maybe anyone I've ever met. Alanna Smith: That's awesome. Dan Smith: Yes, he makes everything fun. Alanna Smith: All right, so before we get talking to Bruce, we have a question. Dan Smith: Oh, boy. Alanna Smith: All right, so this listener writes in and I thought it would be, I mean, it's perfect for our guest today. She says, hi, Dan. I'm a mom of a division three volleyball player at Muhlenberg. My daughter's majoring in psychology. And playing on the team has been such a lifeline for her. It's given her confidence, community, and joy, but there's no
scholarship money and the costs are real: tuition, travel equipment, it all adds up. She's talking about taking out loans and picking up a part-time job just to stay afloat. We both know she's not going pro, this sport isn't her future, but it's such a big part of her right now. I just wanna do right by her to support what she loves without setting her up for financial stress after graduation. How do parents like me walk that line between being present for the moment and protecting their financial future? Dan Smith: Wow. Alanna Smith: That's a great question. Dan Smith: That is a great question. Alanna Smith: It's a concerned mom question. Dan Smith: It is. How I would attack this question if I were sitting face to face with this woman, I think you have to start with hopes and dreams. I'm a big believer, and this is kind of counterintuitive to traditional financial planning advice, you wanna make sure that your child is pursuing something that brings them joy and certainly volleyball seems to be the center of this question. And it brings her camaraderie, it
brings her a sense of community, it brings her self- satisfaction. The difference between a division one and a division three athlete is rather cavernous. There is no, you know, future of making a living, being a volleyball player by and large. I'm sure there's exceptions. Alanna Smith: Yeah. But I think people going into D three know that, right? Dan Smith: They do. They do. And you know, I know Muhlenberg is a private college. I know approximately what the costs are. And what I would say is just having a heart to heart with your daughter. And I've been involved in many of these conversations. Where you just have to lay out the dollars and cents versus watching a dream. Alanna Smith: And also she's asking about like should her daughter take on loans and or a part-time job. I know you were a D three athlete. Dan Smith: I was. Alanna Smith: And you had part-time jobs. Dan Smith: Yeah, I worked in the summer. I worked during the school year. I also had loans when I came out of college. What you have to do, and this wasn't. My circumstance, because none of those things were discussed. But I want to answer this question of this
woman, the counterbalance. That is, if you take out loans, obviously it's gonna meet the financial obligation to pay the school. If you counterbalance that with working on campus, it subsidizes what you would have to take out on loans. But the post-college experience might be something like, well, instead of getting a job and moving out and getting your own apartment, et cetera, might be living at home for a couple of years, are you willing to pay that price? Okay. So that's where, you know, really the transition of financial planning goes from the parent to the daughter. That's really when she should start doing her financial plan. So there's definitely a path to getting this type of equation done. But it really comes down to meeting with someone that can guide them through this emotional decision, Alanna Smith: Right. And having open and honest conversations about it all. I think what I'm hearing in the question is just a lot of worry and fear, and I think what you're saying is the plan as usual takes care of the worry and fear. Dan Smith: And I think my sense is that these open discussions aren't being had with the
daughter, and that can turn into a real emotional experience. So meeting with a planner to discuss the parameters of that decision, so both the mom and the daughter are fully aware going in eyes wide open, and then post- college. The daughter transitioning to her financial plan and whatever the indebtedness is, to attack that first before getting on the path of saving and you know, securing her financial future. Alanna Smith: Right. So I think what we're saying is don't quit volleyball. We can figure it out. Dan Smith: Yeah. I would never advise, you know, not pursuing a passion. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Dan Smith: As long as it's a healthy passion. Alanna Smith: All right, well, talking about healthy passions, I think we gotta get Bruce on here to weigh in his 2 cents on D three athletics. And hear some tales from the mat. Dan Smith: The Bruce Haberli.
“Dan has a plan” Jingle. Dan Smith: Great Jackson Hole. Good place. Bruce Haberli: Oh man, is it. Dan Smith: Nice pancakes there. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. You've had 'em right? Dan Smith: I've had them. I took Ben there for banana pancakes. Bruce Haberli: Very nice. Alanna Smith: Um, you took me there. Dan Smith: Yes, I took Alanna there. Bruce Haberli: Did you get the blueberry? Dan Smith: I did not. Bruce Haberli: They put fresh blueberries in those pancakes. Dan Smith: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I know. Bruce Haberli: I haven't been there in ages, but- Dan Smith: We're joined today by the coach of NYU Wrestling. Bruce Haberli. Welcome, Bruce. Bruce Haberli: Thank you. Alanna Smith: We're so lucky to have you on this podcast. It's very fancy. Bruce Haberli: Really? Alanna Smith: Oh yeah. Bruce Haberli: Okay. Alanna Smith: Head coach? Bruce Haberli: I'm feeling pretty good right now. Okay. Alanna Smith: Yeah. We talk about coaching a lot on this podcast. Bruce Haberli: Yes. I'm not surprised. Dan Smith: So before you became a head coach at NYU, walk us down the path. What was your, what was your history with wrestling? Why don't you just start, where did you wrestle? You know, give us a little Reader's Digest version here. Bruce Haberli: Okay. This is a good question. I like this question. So I guess in seventh grade, probably as far back as fifth grade, I played basketball. That's where a lot of wrestlers start, in basketball. Wow. And so I
got to say seventh grade and then they had middle school tryouts and I thought clearly I was the best kid on the team. And I got cut first. I was the first one. Cut. Dan Smith: Oh, stinger. Bruce Haberli: So obviously my judgment was off and I had this like a great defensive move that nobody else had, like cover the eyes without fouling ‘em. You know, things like that. Cover the Alanna Smith: Cover the eyes. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Dan Smith: Tremendous. Bruce Haberli: So I tried these things. The coach did not like it, cut me right off the bat and I said, okay, I'll wrestle as a seventh grader. And I was terrible, but I wrestled as a seventh grader. This story continues. Eighth grade, I went back out for basketball, got cut first again, and still in my mind I was better than everybody else in the grade. Alanna Smith: This is feeling personal. Bruce Haberli: It was, yeah, it was rough. And so I went out for wrestling and at that point I stuck with wrestling. So I was so bad. I was so bad at wrestling. I wrestled seventh grade, I wrestled eighth grade. I won my first match in ninth grade. Alanna Smith: Wow. Wow, wow. That's dedication. Dan Smith: So you lost every match in seventh and eighth
grade? Bruce Haberli: Correct. Dan Smith: Oh my god. Alanna Smith: I didn't know we were gonna get an underdog story today. I'm very excited. Dan Smith: This is tremendous. What was it that made you stay with it? Usually defeat is like, you know, exit stage left. Bruce Haberli: So there's a few things. One. A lot of things that happened in my life was a result of where things were with my dad. So my dad was kind of proud of the physical contact sport. Dan Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: He boxed in the Navy, he liked the one-on-one thing, so he was kind of proud and. Making my dad proud was huge, so I continued to wrestle and you know, wrestling is a fight. Dan Smith: Yeah Bruce Haberli: I got my butt whooped so much that I wasn't afraid. So that was kind of a thing that I've come to realize why I stuck with it. I go out there and I get just crushed and I would walk off the mat. All right. I survived. And then so one day I won a match and once I won a match, something was clicking in my head saying maybe I don't have to stink, you know? So that's how it all began. Dan Smith: Was there a coach that you connected with early in your wrestling career? Bruce Haberli: I also love that question. My high
school coach was the best, and when I say the best, he wasn't the best technician. But he was a guy that you loved. Right. And I think a lot of times that's what happens. My high school coach was just so much fun. He would sing, Don't Let Me Down by The Beatles while we're wrestling. You know, like, you know, and just like publicly, you know, I could remember a kid named Mike Kahn who was. Clearly the worst kid on the high school team. And Mike Kahn won a match. He did a big picture of King Kong, but he changed to King Kahn. Dan Smith: Beautiful. Bruce Haberli: So he did things that were very memorable. He was enjoyable. That experience through high school is what carried me over. And I wasn't the greatest high school wrestler. I was one of those guys who kept getting better, the slow pace, right? So by the time I was a senior, I was Honorable Mention all county. Dan Smith: There were six kids. In your family. Where were you? Bruce Haberli: Second youngest. Dan Smith: Second youngest. Bruce Haberli: Yep. I got, oh, wow. I got a little brother who moved upstate New York. My family bought a campground. Dan Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: Right on the Delaware River. So after high school I went up there. I helped them run it before I went to college. And that year, and
by the way, there's no wrestling up there at the time. I kept working out. I just, I put mat on the second floor of a barn, I had weights and I was doing all that stuff. And at the end of the year, then I had to confront my dad and say, dad, I'm not staying. I gotta go back here. And he was upset. He was so upset. But I mean, I wanted to live my life and he had plans for me. He wanted me to live the life he wanted me to live. He wanted me to stay by his side. Run the campground, stay there. Dan Smith: Gotcha. Bruce Haberli: It was done in my mind. I didn't know where I was going to college, but I was gonna find a way. So different time, right? So, you know, when I say different time, I wasn't gonna go to college, my parents were gonna pay for it, Alanna Smith: Right. Bruce Haberli: I was gonna find my own way, and I knew that I didn't have to discuss with anybody. I just knew it. So I came home, I worked, and then I started applying. I would go to the New York Athletic Club to work out on Tuesdays and Thursday nights, which is in the city. I would take a bus, public transportation into the city. And you go in there, like I said, after all those beatings, I wasn't afraid of anything. So you go into the New York AC room, you got Division one National Champs, you got Olympians, you got all these people.
Alanna Smith: So it’s a wrestling gym specifically? Bruce Haberli: The New York AC is a private club in the city. Alanna Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: Right? Where they fund clubs of all sports, all Olympic sports. Alanna Smith: Oh wow. Bruce Haberli: With the exception of things like football. You know? Prob baseball, Olympic sports that are non-revenue sports track, although it's tough to say, track's a non-revenue sports these days, but you know, fencing, track, wrestling, boxing. Alanna Smith: How did you know about it? Bruce Haberli: There was a guy on my team, Dave Weck, his brother, Dan Weck. Would go to the New York Athletic Club, Alanna Smith: Look at that. Bruce Haberli: And so he would say he's taking Dave, his brother. So I eventually hooked on with them and then they wouldn't go all the time. And when they didn't go all the time, I kept going. Dan Smith: Nice. Alanna Smith: Oh, this is like a movie in the making. So you're at the gym. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Alanna Smith: And what happens next? Bruce Haberli: So it's actually, there is something there. So. I'm working out at the New York Athletic Club, and then there's a guy that I’m friendly with even today, I've known him forever. His name is Paul Lupano. He was the assistant coach at Hunter College, and so he started seeing me and we got to know each other's name, and then he eventually said, where you going next year? I said somewhere, I don't know where, but somewhere.
And he said, why don't you come to Hunter? That's all he had to say. Dan Smith: Nice. Bruce Haberli: It wasn't like, what majors do you have? Alanna Smith: Right. You just needed someone. Bruce Haberli: None of that mattered. I just needed someone to say, do you want to come to Hunter? I said, yes. I just needed somebody to want me to come. Yeah. You know, so he said, you know, you wanna come visit? He goes, whatcha doing tomorrow? I said, nothing. And then I went over and met the coach, the head coach and Hunter and Dan Smith: Nice. Bruce Haberli: The whole thing, said, can you get me in? Alanna Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: That was it with one shot. Dan Smith: Tremendous. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Unbelievable. Bruce Haberli: Yep. Dan Smith: So Hunter College is where? Bruce Haberli: 68th and Lexington Avenue, New York City. Four buildings on four corners, north, south, east, west on four corners. Dan Smith: So this is a division three school? Bruce Haberli: Yes. Correct. Dan Smith: Take us from there. Bruce Haberli: I went to Hunter College. I was just a different wrestler. This is probably where I made my biggest jump right from the start. 'Cause I was excited, so. I was going to tournaments and everything prior and doing everything that a good wrestler should do. Realistically, as my father would say, I was majoring in wrestling, that could be criticized. Right. But on the flip side, it was a means to a degree. Dan Smith: Sure was. Bruce Haberli: And I was much better. By the time I got to college, I was hard to beat, so Wow. I was winning
tournaments and getting OWs and all that kind of stuff. Nice. Ows is MVP. Alanna Smith: Yeah this is good. Dan Smith: What a story. I love this story. So you wrestle at Hunter, you graduate from Hunter. What's on tap for Bruce? Bruce Haberli: I'm gonna coach in college. It's already in my head. Alanna Smith: Right just keep going. Bruce Haberli: Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. So I'm, I stayed in the city and I lived with a buddy of mine, Rafael, who was an All American for LSU and Brockport and used to come in the room and coach. So moved in with him and I got my eyes and ears open and LIU Post opened up a position for the head coach. Dan Smith: Okay. Alanna Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: I was not getting that job, so I'm like, Rafael, I got a job for you. You know, he's already working. He's like a bartender. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Bruce Haberli: I said, you’re a bartender, your four o'clock is free. You know you're coaching. He said, what are talking about? LIU Post. We gotta get you over there for the interview for the job. And he said, why? I said, because I'm the assistant coach. Alanna Smith: Right, right, right. Take me with you. Bruce Haberli: That's, and it happened exactly that way. He applied for the job. The administration didn't even interview me. Rafael just said, yeah, you're my assistant. I think I got paid
like $2,000. All right. I'm getting something. I would've done it for nothing. Alanna Smith: Right. Bruce Haberli: So I was assistant for him for one year and he, Rafael loved the guy. Great guy. Terrible coach, good technician, but terrible coach. He was probably the funniest coach you'd ever want to meet, but just terrible. So as we're wrestling meets, we're wrestling Manhattan College and I'm watching the bench of Manhattan College. And the kids are just very disrespectful to the head coach. You could tell the head coach, that he didn't care much either. You could just tell. So, then the kids are laughing at him and whatnot, and I said, okay, this guy's not gonna be here beyond this year. Alanna Smith: Yeah. You're seeing it all unfold. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Yep. And then the job opened up and I was at the doorstep. Dan Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Alanna Smith: This is amazing. Bruce Haberli: I went on to Manhattan College. Dan Smith: Tremendous. Bruce Haberli: The guy who hired me at Manhattan College. He was a well-known basketball guy. Jack Powers? Yeah. He was the vice president of the NIT. He was the greatest guy, and he was so honest with me. Like when I said, listen, this guy's got eight scholarships. These guy's got two scholarships, these guy's got three, can have one. He go, Bruce, he was
very upfront. He never lied to me. He was just like, it's not in the cards. Dan Smith: So you were a Jasper. Bruce Haberli: I was a Jasper, yes. Dan Smith: Just tell the audience what a Jasper is. Bruce Haberli: It's a Christian brother. His last name was Jasper, who invented the seventh inning stretch. Dan Smith: See another baseball reference. Bruce Haberli: Right. Alanna Smith: It all comes back. Dan Smith: Oh my God. Bruce Haberli: He invented seventh inning stretch. So it was a scrimmage. Between Manhattan College and I think maybe West Point, but not positive. Alanna Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: And it was a boring game. So as we got into the seventh inning, he stopped the game and said, everybody stand on your feet. Just take five minutes, then stretch, and then continue it again. Dan Smith: So it was a stretch. Bruce Haberli: So it was a seventh inning stretch and that's what it was about. Yeah. Dan Smith: Oh my God. Bruce Haberli: That's where it came from. Alanna Smith: Gotta shake it up. Dan Smith: I didn't see this coming. Bruce Haberli: I got some information. Dan Smith: You certainly do. Love it. Love it. So you're living your dream. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. I had the job at Manhattan College for seven years, and then they dropped it. Dan Smith: They dropped wrestling as a sport? Bruce Haberli: They dropped wrestling, yes. Dan Smith: Okay. Alanna Smith: Sad. Bruce Haberli: And that was heartbreaking. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Bruce Haberli: That was 'cause in my mind, that was my first real job. I was like, what other job is there in this world? This is the only job there is, you know? Alanna Smith: Yeah. Dan Smith: Right. Bruce Haberli: That's where my mind and
my heart was, and I was heartbroken. Right. So here I am, I'm fighting for my program and the president of the university for some reason, I don't think he liked me very much. I don't know why I didn't do anything wrong. But neither nor there. It was one of those colleges. They have tiers, right? So these programs are our top tier and it's gonna be basketball and track full allotment or scholarships, the whole thing. Then you got tier two, and then you got tier three, and you got tier four. We were probably tier four. Dan Smith: So at the time you were there, Manhattan was a what? Division? One, two. Bruce Haberli: It was division one. Dan Smith: It was. Bruce Haberli: Yep. Dan Smith: Okay. And you couldn't get one scholarship for a division one athlete? Bruce Haberli: I ended up getting a half, Dan Smith: Half ? Bruce Haberli: Half a scholarship. Dan Smith: Oh my God. Wow. Bruce Haberli: I gave it to a New Jersey boy named Stephen Harrison, who was a state runner up from Camden Catholic. Alanna Smith: So we talk a lot about work ethic. I mean, it comes up a lot in financial planning, staying the course and trusting the plan and looking at the bigger picture. Obviously you have an amazing work ethic. It got you to where you are. What do you see in college students that makes you say you gotta stick with this? How does that come into play in what you do? Bruce Haberli: Well I think there's a lot of things that
are said in my sport that kind of carries over into education, carries over into academics. One of the things that Dan Gable said, Dan, you've heard of Dan Gable. Dan Smith: I've heard of Dan Gable. Bruce Haberli: Dan Gable said, once you've wrestled, everything else in life is easy. You know? So, you know, I don't know how true that is, but I think there is a certain amount of truth to it. I think it teaches you discipline, teaches you time management. It's obviously terrific on a resume. There's companies out there. Who look for wrestlers. Alanna Smith: This is a pro tip. Bruce Haberli: There are companies out there who look to almost hire exclusively wrestlers. Dan Smith: That's a fact. Yeah. Alanna Smith: Really? Wait, tell me more. Dan Smith: Yeah. The analogy I would make is, as Bruce said, wrestling is so difficult. I'll just go back to high school. When I was in high school, I played basketball, but, I used to help a classmate of mine try to get down to weight. So I would go into the wrestling room at lunch hour with him and my job was to try to move him and we did it for two minutes at a time 'cause that's what the timing was in a wrestling match at the time. Bruce Haberli: The length of a period. Yeah.
Yeah. Dan Smith: After two minutes and not even being able to budge this kid, I collapsed on the ground, gasping for air, gasping. I have never, ever done anything more physically taxing in my life. Alanna Smith: I have never heard this story, so this is great. Dan Smith: Tim Hyer, he went on to play in the USFL. He was a middle linebacker for the Jacksonville Bulls. That's the guy. He would play football at 230 pounds and Russell at 165 in the winter. Bruce Haberli: Not good. They made rules to fix that. Dan Smith: Yeah that's not a good thing to do for anybody. This guy- Alanna Smith: It was a different time. Dan Smith: This guy. This guy was so country strong. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Dan Smith: Bruce, I couldn't move the guy. Bruce Haberli: Strong base. Yeah. Dan Smith: I weighed more than him, but there was no way. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Dan Smith: So the analogy I always give is wrestlers and engineers. Okay. You can go to school to be an engineer and you can throw that resume on any CFO's desk of any public company in the United States. If you wrestled or you're an engineer, you got a little leg up. Definitely. Bruce Haberli: There is a tool company out there that's a well-known company, right. You would know the company in a heartbeat that shows up.
The wrestling events everywhere. 'cause they only hire wrestlers and they show up to the beast of the east in Delaware. They show up to the big events. Dan Smith: The mindset of a wrestler, just from a hiring perspective, is singular focused, organized, great work ethic, time management skills, not willing to give up. And putting the work in, and it's greatly needed in this country, trust me. Alanna Smith: Did you find that the criticism along the way was fuel, or was it hard? Bruce Haberli: No. Criticism was fuel more than hard. I mean, I knew if I let something bring me down, it's gonna hurt more than just me. It's gonna hurt everything that goes along with the program. So you can't let anything bring you down. If you want to have success, you can't use those excuses, right? You gotta find a way to get things done, like hardships. You look at the COVID year. I had probably one of the best wrestlers I've ever coached during that window of time. Alanna Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: As a junior, he's in Stern School of Business and in four years, in one summer session, he has two Bachelors and a Master's outta Stern. Alanna Smith: Wow. Dan Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: You wouldn't know
he had schoolwork. He will not put anything on you. Obviously very well brought up, right? One of the best kids, he's very humble, kind of quiet, and the kid, his junior year is ranked sixth in the country. So as we get to the end of the season, he calls me the night before we leave for the NCA qualifier where he is seeded number one, he said, coach, I'm in the emergency room. He goes, I have to have emergency surgery. And he had surgery. He's in practice. The next day he's just sitting down on the side quiet. He's kind of teary eyed. I don't know what to do. All I could do is say, Sean, are you okay buddy? What can I do for you? And he was like, I'm fine. He just wanted to be left alone. He goes, I'm a captain. I feel like I should be here. His season was over. Senior year, right? He loses one match to a division two national champ early in the season, and a close bout. Then he goes on a tear where he techs or pins everybody the rest of the year. Now he's ranked number two in the country, or you know, I think he's ranked number one now. He's not a cocky guy. He is very humble. We’re on our way to the national championships and he comes over and he
kinda whispers to me and he said, coach goes, you know, nobody can beat me. Right. I love this kid. Right. And I'm like, Sean, you and I both know that, but keep it to ourselves and you just do your thing. We get out to the national championships. Go through registration. We have four out of 10 guys at the national championships. Right. We go through registration the whole bit. Everybody checks their weight, everything is perfect. We go to a supermarket. Guys are buying their food for after weigh-ins, and I get a call from the NCAA: tournament's canceled. Now the first COVID is starting to come out COVID. Dan Smith: Oh god. Alanna Smith: This was like March, 2020. Bruce Haberli: Yeah, I guess that's when it was. Yes. Alanna Smith: You blocked it out. Bruce Haberli: You look at two years of the most unexpected things that can happen to one person. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Bruce Haberli: And so now you got four guys standing in the aisle. I go in, I gotta tell these guys. I go up to them and I say, guys, come here. I called him over and I just put it out there. It's canceled, you know? I said, I know how you feel. And you know, you can see other schools where guys lose it, get angry. And Alanna Smith: Of course. Bruce Haberli: But kids at NYU, they're not doing that, they're just. Sean kind of slid to the floor and just sat. All the other three guys, and one of 'em is a three time All American and Sean could
whoop 'em all now. They all put their hands on him. They felt so bad for the guy. They just put their hands right on him. Right. Dan Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: And then Sean sat there for a minute. And then he said, you know what? I guess they probably canceled it for all the right reasons. Let's go get our parents to go out for dinner. Dan Smith: Wow. Alanna Smith: Wow that's someone you would hire. Bruce Haberli: Meantime, he applies for a job at Pricewaterhouse, number one accounting firm in the country. First interview he's hired. They take him. Alanna Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: And he's at Pricewaterhouse. He goes, coach, can I help you coach? And I said, Sean, nothing. I'd want more. Right. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Bruce Haberli: So he's coaching with me, and this year he said, I have to resign. I said, why? Because he got the quarterly evaluations. He got the highest evaluation and he got promotion or two during this window of time, and this last evaluation, he got an average evaluation and he goes, I need to know my priorities. I'm like, wow. Like Sean. Alanna Smith: Not above average, average. Bruce Haberli: But I mean, you gotta love this kid. Alanna Smith: That's amazing. Dan Smith: What a story that is. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Dan Smith: So division three athletics, you went from Manhattan to NYU? Bruce Haberli: They dropped the program in Manhattan. I started
putting resumes in at jobs that were opening Buffalo. Hofstra Seton Hall and NYU. NYU’s the only D3 job. Now, meantime, I could say now that D three is where I belong, probably where I should have been to start. But I'm taking a job. You can be a job. I'm taking it. So I went from wrestling D3 to coaching D1 So then on now. These other jobs open up. I apply for all of them and I get an offer for an interview at all of ‘em. So I got flown up to Buffalo, interviewed for the job, they gave it to somebody else. I went to Hofstra, interviewed for the job. They hired Tom Ryan, and Tom Ryan now is the head coach at Ohio State. Dan Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: So I didn't get that job. I go to Seton Hall. Interviewed for the job. They offered me the position and I said, I'll take it. I got 10 scholarships. What's my salary? I believe they said something like $12,000. What? I said, why? They said, well, did you not know that this was a part-time position? And so that raised a red flag. You're giving all these scholarships and you're bringing a guy on part-time. So now I didn't have anything
else. So I said, okay, I'll take the job. I said, you sure you don't need somebody to sweep the basketball court? I'm not proud, I'll do anything. No, we don't have anything for you. So I take the job, I get home, the phone rings and I answer it, and she goes, Bruce Haberli. I go, yeah. She goes, this is Janice Quinn from NYU. And she goes, I was talking to Jack Powers. We're looking for a coach. Jack Power said, you're the man for the job. Alanna Smith: Wait, remind me, is this the man you weren't sure liked you or not? Bruce Haberli: No, that was the president. Okay. Dan Smith: What's not to like about Bruce? Alanna Smith: What's not to like? And also when we write the movie, I will make it the person who didn't like you, who then gives a recommendation. That's the better. But yes. Okay, great. I'm straight now. Bruce Haberli: So yes. So Jack Powers guy from the NIT, he contacted Janice, the position was open and Janice said she wants to meet me. So I went down, the athletic director was retiring, Janice was the associate AD. I went and met with her and she goes, I'd like you to meet the assistant chancellor. You have time. 'cause I'm gonna call him and I said, sure. If I met him and they offered me the job right away, I accepted the job. Now I have keys to two coaches' offices, one at Seton Hall and
one at NYU. NYU is full-time. That was one of the first questions I asked.And it was division three. I was one of the first D 3 full- time coaches. So in wrestling, 'cause this was over 30 years ago. Okay, see here, and by the way, Janice and I are both there still. Alanna Smith: Wow. That's awesome. Dan Smith: That is great. Alanna Smith: So you have the keys to both kingdoms? Bruce Haberli: Yep. I get in my car, drive back to Seton Hall and now I gotta face 'em, which was pretty uncomfortable, but you just step up and do it. Dan Smith: Wow. So how long have you been there now? Bruce Haberli: 30 years. 30 or 31. Dan Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: I think I started 95-96. Alanna Smith: Wow. Dan Smith: What would you consider the biggest change over that 30 years? Bruce Haberli: It's a relatively easy answer. I've learned how to go full circle in terms of what makes a student athlete be the best student athlete. You know, when I grew up, it was, are you foaming at the mouth? You know? Just that's just a phrase. I really wasn't foaming at the mouth, but you know. It's just, that's how I wrestled. It was just get away from me. Nobody talk to me. I'm ready to go out and kill this guy. It was hard to see how anything could be better than that, but there's a lot of education out there and a
lot of changes over the years. There's actually full-time people doing sports psychology. It's all about learning how to relax. It's all about getting rest, not overthinking it, not acting like you're settling world peace. It's a sport and calming down and relaxing and be able to wrestle with that approach. Dan Smith: Right. Bruce Haberli: Especially in pressure matches. You need to be able to relax and you'll compete your best. It's only a sport. It's hard for me to even think that way 'cause I wasn't that way. Ever. Alanna Smith: Yeah big difference. Bruce Haberli: But it's a big difference. Yeah. So if you could learn how to relax, put the sport in perspective, you can go on out there and you could participate at your highest level. Dan Smith: There has to be a thought component to what you're doing. You have to think your way. Alanna Smith: What is your favorite part about coaching? Bruce Haberli: I think working with young people. I think it keeps you young. I know I'm not young. The numbers don't lie. I've heard you say the numbers don't lie once before. Dan Smith: Yes. Bruce Haberli: So I'm 65, so I need to be smart. I don't think I'm gonna do nothing. I think I'm gonna do something. Yeah. Right. I'm not gonna retire and go fishing. It's not gonna be me. But. I would like to leave the program in a good place. The thing I
always thought I would be doing as a coach would be I would be on the mat all the time, and that's just not true. You become an administrator, you know your assistants are on the mat all the time. You're preparing things and you're making things happen. Doesn't make me love it any less. And now I probably can't get on the mat. I got two total knee replacements. You know, getting on the match. Not smart. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Pointing is powerful. Bruce Haberli: That's right. You do this and you do that. That's right. Dan Smith: Is it a fair assessment that you don't feel like you've worked a day in your life? Bruce Haberli: That's a very good assessment except for the days I got in trouble. Dan Smith: Bruce, get in trouble? Never. Bruce Haberli: But yeah, doing something I love a hundred percent. I think that's a fair statement. Dan Smith: Yeah I talk to a lot of people in all different professions and especially younger people, and what I try to, impart on them is a work career is generally around 40 years. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Dan Smith: And if you're gonna do something for 40 years that you absolutely hate, it's gonna take time off your life. Somehow, some way. Bruce is a classic example of doing something that he really loves. It's very admirable. Bruce Haberli: Well, if you look at all my coaching
jobs, I've hit the 40. Because I'm 31 at NYU and then Manhattan for eight and LIU post for one. So I'm right there. Dan Smith: You’re right there. Yeah. Let me just shift to the portal. Are you affected by the portal? Bruce Haberli: I love the portal. Alanna Smith: What is the portal? Bruce Haberli: People could transfer now without having to do nearly as much as they used to have to do. So if you're in a division one school, you don't like it, you could put your name in the portal and the portal shows everybody online that you're available, you want to transfer, right? And so we're a school like NYU will do well with the portal, right? Because students want to go there. Now we're getting a guy who might've got a scholarship, who's in the end of his career, maybe had a All American in front of me, couldn't start, who knows what the truth is, right? But they want to transfer. I'd reach out to him and they're gonna be interested. So we got two guys off the portal this year. One from Cornell and one from UVA that are gonna be winners for us. So. Alanna Smith: So you don't get scholarships with D3, right? Across the board. Bruce Haberli: Yep. Alanna Smith: So we had a question about a mom saying, my kids playing D3 volleyball.
We're looking at loans and part-time jobs. Do you have players who have part-time jobs? Do you feel like it's a stress? Are there academic scholarships? Do you see that side of it at all? Bruce Haberli: Yeah. All the time. So first of all, in terms of coaches, it's against NCA rules for us to get involved in the financial aspect. But yes, we can advise, we know how they could save money. We have all these different things. They have the NYU Promise, right? The NYU promise now is if you have a low income kid. Who's a good student and he can get accepted. If the family makes under a hundred thousand, you go for free. Alanna Smith: Wow. Bruce Haberli: So that’s hugely helpful. Things like dorms, you can become an RA. NYU where you have so many dorms 'cause the school's big and some floors, there's two RAs. Yeah. So getting an RA job is not hard. If you get an RA job, it pays for your housing and your meals. Right. Alanna Smith: Wow, that's great. Yeah. Bruce Haberli: Um, yeah, so I mean there's ways of making things happen. The meal plan and the housing, the vary in costs are huge. You know, so you can have a rich kid taking the
top dorm where he actually lives by himself and the whole thing, and then you can have somebody who's in the economy triples, you know? And the difference is many thousands, right? The meal plan, I always advise parents, especially for incoming freshmen, don't worry about your kid eating three meals a day. Don't pay for it because you're throwing lots and lots of money away. Alanna Smith: Really? Bruce Haberli: Your son will be in that cafeteria once, maybe twice a day. He will never be in there three times a day. Alanna Smith: Breakfast, not happening. Bruce Haberli: No, not happening. So you know, these guys are stopping at the store, picking up a Tasty Cake or something on the way to class. You save a ton of money. Dan Smith: Love the Tasty Cake reference, by the way. That’s good. Bruce Haberli: I'm a big fan myself. I'm a little more Hostess, but I like tasty cake. Dan Smith: I always ask guests if there's usually a couple of aha moments. It could be something very small, something very big, and I'm not talking about someone winning a national championship. I’m just talking about. Let me give you an example. Bruce Haberli: That's good. Dan Smith: I was coaching baseball at the Rec level and there was this young man who wasn't selected for the All-Star team, and a lot of people, when they're
not selected for something, they kind of go home and just wallow about it. But this kid just kept coming around to practices and he be all the games and he would have his glove on and his baseball pants and a hat. And one day I was coaching and we had an injury. I needed a player. I look over and I see this kid, Roman Haberli, and Roman knew that I loved him. I coached Roman and I fought for Roman and I put him in center field. Like anything in baseball. The ball finds you. Bruce Haberli: Yep. Dan Smith: The kid from the opposing team hits a rope to center. Roman on the dead run backhands it, catches it for the out. Alanna Smith: Wow. Dan Smith: It was a big play in the game. Okay. And Bruce may or may not remember this. Bruce Haberli: I remember almost everything with Roman’s baseball. Alanna Smith: Yeah. How could you not? Dan Smith: And when you flip a year later, we're playing a game and Rome is now an established part of the team. And he was the first player I coached at the Rec level that hit a home run over the fence. Bruce Haberli: Yep. Dan Smith: In left center. Alanna Smith: Wow. Dan Smith: Okay. Bruce Haberli: In the rain. Dan Smith: Yeah. So it was an
aha moment for me, okay, because I was pulling for the kid. I had to convince others in positions of evaluation, I guess I would call. It was a good parenting example. Bruce and his wife Michelle could have confronted me and say, Hey, how come you didn't fight for this kid to be on the team? He deserves to be on the team. He loves the game the whole bit. They took an opposite approach of saying, Hey Roman, what can you do to get better? To me, that was an aha moment. So. When you coach during a season, it doesn't have to be your best wrestler. It's just a moment that you see that nobody else really understands but you. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Here's the thing with wrestling more than most sports, it's almost like the writing's on the wall. You know where your kids are at, you know where they are as athletes, like you know where they are when they get there. You don't see a whole lot of big jumps or big surprises. You just watch that slow development. It's a steady thing and the guys who work hard are gonna reap the benefits. But you, that's not an aha situation either. 'cause you they're working hard and
you're anticipating this. So, you know, outside of the actual competition and competing, you see character things and things that, that. Might be aha moments on a personal level. Dan Smith: Right? Bruce Haberli: But not necessarily wrestling. You know, it's fun when you watch guys go out and they wrestle. They both think they're gonna win, and they got that competitive juices going and you see a great match. But you know, they're both good. You know where they both are as wrestlers. And you know you're gonna see a great match. And so there's no surprises happening here. You don't see too many aha moments. Dan Smith: I think how I would characterize Coach Bruce Haberli is that he's had 40 years of aha moments. There's nothing that he loves more and is better at than what he's doing. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. Dan Smith: Is that a fair assessment? Bruce Haberli: That’s very fair. What else would I do if I was a wrestling coach? Dan Smith: So, yeah. Alanna Smith: That's awesome. Dan Smith: Yeah It's good stuff. Alanna Smith: It's a pleasure hearing your life story and how you've been living in your purpose this long. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. By the way, if you don't mind me saying Alanna Smith: Please. Bruce Haberli: One of the things that I've taken to college wrestling was your dad's approach to talking to his team. Alanna Smith: Go on. Bruce Haberli: Wow.
Alanna Smith: Yeah. This is a huge compliment. Bruce Haberli: I used to remember when your dad was not happy with something. I'll give an example. We're playing baseball in 95 degree heat and it's an all star team and we're out there and the kids are dragging. He knows it and the kids are hot. And he has this thing where he is sitting on his baseball bucket. Alanna Smith: Oh, I remember the bucket so well. Bruce Haberli: Sitting on his baseball bucket Alanna Smith: Visor on. Bruce Haberli: And in the middle of a game, time out. And he just, this one clap. And they would run in and they would run in and they would get on a knee. And if he was disappointed, he would talk lower. And that raised their attention to a high level. Alanna Smith: They had to lean in. Bruce Haberli: The boys, you know, it's 95, but it's 95 for me too, and I'm here with you guys. It's 95 degrees for all your parents that are sitting in the stands and we're here. So we could play lazy or we could play our best, but we're gonna be here anyway. He was like, do we understand? Are you guys ready to play? You know? And he was like, okay, get back out to your position. Boom. They ran out. Alanna Smith: One clap. Bruce Haberli: That approach of don't lose it, you know, have that
conversation. I remember that stuff when I kept that with me. So I'm gonna thank you for that one. Dan Smith: The thank you is well received. I appreciate it. Alanna Smith: Yeah. How's that make you feel? Dan Smith: I tell you, it's just, I always felt that how you ran out to your position, how you returned from your position in baseball was a sign of unity. So in practice I try to be very active with the sport, but when the inning was over, if they walked in, I said, no, we're gonna do that over. Alanna Smith: I remember this personally. Dan Smith: So every softball or baseball team I coach, it was an expectation. Bruce Haberli: Yep. Dan Smith: Okay. Because someone's always watching and Bruce brings up. It's very meaningful what he just said. Someone's always watching. Bruce Haberli: There's a few things like that well being on time. I remember that. If practice starts at 11 and you show up at 11, you're late. Well, I remember that stuff. Uh, it was fantastic. Alanna Smith: By the way, I'm now in a career where there's a lot of similarities to sports and it's a lot of teamwork. You know, rehearsal could be like a
practice, and the way you show up is noticed. And the way you get up from your seat to go rehearse your scene and is noticed. And I mean, I would rather die than not run out to shortstop. That's how I grew up. But it's paid off in a big way. Bruce Haberli: Yeah. You need to respect the game. The first time we were trying to fix the fields on a rain delay, and I was out there with your dad. And it was only him and I on the field at the time, and I didn't know him yet. And so Dan Smith, great guy. Once you know him, before you know him, there's a certain level of quietness. Alanna Smith: Yes. Bruce Haberli: And I worked out on that field trying to get that field together with him and then taking his instruction. We pretty much didn't talk for. The whole time. It doesn't matter. You know, he's a great coach. It's gonna benefit my son. I'm gonna do this. And then once you get to know him, yeah. Alanna Smith: You intimidated the head coach of NYU. Dan Smith: Oh my goodness. Bruce Haberli: He did. Dan Smith: That's crazy. Bruce Haberli: And then once we got to know him, he challenged me to go dive in a closing pool as they were closing the Montvale pool, getting ready to pull the thing over at the end of the season, he's like, Bruce, you won't go dive in that pool, will you? And that's all he had to say. And he had
all his buddies there, said, okay. Took my shirt off, ran dove into the pool. They were trying to stop me on the way through. Alanna Smith: This is amazing. Wow. Dan Smith: Yeah. A few stories out there. Alanna Smith: Well, this has been great.Thank you so much. Bruce Haberli: Thank you or having me. Dan Smith: And we're proud to know you Bruce. Of course. Just keep doing what you're doing, please. Please. Bruce Haberli: I will. Certainly for the next few years. Alanna Smith: Yeah. Dan Smith: That's it for the Bruce Haberli. Alanna Smith: Thanks, Bruce. Bruce Haberli: Thank you. Alanna Smith: All right. We had Bruce Haberli in his studio today. Dan Smith: Yes, sir. Guy can spin a tail. Alanna Smith: Yeah. If we had to name his life story into a movie, what would you title it? Dan Smith: I think it's like a little bit of a Rudy story. Alanna Smith: Maybe it's just called Bruce. Dan Smith: What I like about his story is it didn't start, things came as easy as pie, so he had to work at his craft. Alanna Smith: Well, here's to work ethic. You talk about it all the time. Financial planning. It was great to hear about his work ethic. Dan Smith: I'm a big believer in it, and he's a big example of it. Alanna Smith: Yeah, I mean, you're working with people's hard-earned money. You wanna take care of it. Dan Smith: Correct. Alanna Smith: Okay. All right. Well that was Bruce Haberli. We'll see you next month. Alanna Smith:
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